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	<title>Comments on: Gone from the game</title>
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		<title>By: Kelley</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-7059</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 21:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-7059</guid>
		<description>Ah, &lt;strong&gt;Jan&lt;/strong&gt;, I&#039;m sorry to hear this happened to you.  People can be so nasty about so many stupid things.  And I&#039;m glad, glad, glad to hear that you have that secret smile alive inside you.

It is such a cliche, but true -- living well is the best revenge.  Keep on smiling, sister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, <strong>Jan</strong>, I&#8217;m sorry to hear this happened to you.  People can be so nasty about so many stupid things.  And I&#8217;m glad, glad, glad to hear that you have that secret smile alive inside you.</p>
<p>It is such a cliche, but true &#8212; living well is the best revenge.  Keep on smiling, sister.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan August</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-7031</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan August</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-7031</guid>
		<description>I love this post, Kelley. In the time it took me to read it, you have helped me find my way back to the center of what is important. I live in a city where if you are not discovering the cure for cancer or a CEO of a sexy tech co. or winner of the Pulitzer prize--(believe it or not) you have nothing to offer. Recently, I felt this intensely when I was invited to tea where one woman had 2 phds and the other had worked in a posh museum in London. Then I said: &#039;I&#039;m a writer&#039; and felt how they dismissed me in about thirty seconds. I have been feeling angry and sad for days, then I read this post. Thank God you are you and thank God you are writing about this stuff. 

Writing one true sentence, one scene that transcends language is beyond any plague or shiny bright button to pop. Oh and there is the secret smile we wear of living a creative life without limits, without judgments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love this post, Kelley. In the time it took me to read it, you have helped me find my way back to the center of what is important. I live in a city where if you are not discovering the cure for cancer or a CEO of a sexy tech co. or winner of the Pulitzer prize&#8211;(believe it or not) you have nothing to offer. Recently, I felt this intensely when I was invited to tea where one woman had 2 phds and the other had worked in a posh museum in London. Then I said: &#8216;I&#8217;m a writer&#8217; and felt how they dismissed me in about thirty seconds. I have been feeling angry and sad for days, then I read this post. Thank God you are you and thank God you are writing about this stuff. </p>
<p>Writing one true sentence, one scene that transcends language is beyond any plague or shiny bright button to pop. Oh and there is the secret smile we wear of living a creative life without limits, without judgments.</p>
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		<title>By: Kelley</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6030</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-6030</guid>
		<description>I certainly have no wish to discourage you, my friend.  And my comment about being disingenuous was simply directed at your positing that the bar was an arbitrary target, that possibly the critic wouldn&#039;t be able to define it.

The thing is, I know when I meet someone who is a &quot;real writer&quot; by the common professional standards, and I know when I meet someone who isn&#039;t.  Clarion students are writers, but in the professional realm they are not yet real writers until they publish, you know?  Which is why we/they all get so twisted up when The Editor comes to teach, even if The Editor has the coaching skills of an oyster.  Because they are already in that game. They are already keeping score.  People who have written a thousand stories that they have never submitted are not &quot;real writers&quot; by the standards of the game, no matter the quality of the prose.  That&#039;s all I was trying to get at -- that there is an accepted set of standards that we&#039;ve all absorbed even if we don&#039;t generally talk about them.

And then writers, being an insecure lot, start jostling to see who is most real, most important.  Blech.

And on it goes. 

This is a tricky conversation for me in general (not just with you, but the whole thing). I feel clear and passionate about this discovery, this decision I&#039;ve made.  It is absolutely right for me.  But I am also clear that being right &lt;em&gt;for me&lt;/em&gt; does not make it right for everyone -- maybe anyone -- else.  I&#039;m not trying to convert or persuade any other writer out there to embrace it.  My admiration and respect for other writers, including you, is not based on anything except my appreciation for your work and my respect for the sweat and courage it takes to do it.  

What ought to matter most?  Where is our success? There is no one answer.  It&#039;s for each of us to decide.  There are as many paths as there are people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I certainly have no wish to discourage you, my friend.  And my comment about being disingenuous was simply directed at your positing that the bar was an arbitrary target, that possibly the critic wouldn&#8217;t be able to define it.</p>
<p>The thing is, I know when I meet someone who is a &#8220;real writer&#8221; by the common professional standards, and I know when I meet someone who isn&#8217;t.  Clarion students are writers, but in the professional realm they are not yet real writers until they publish, you know?  Which is why we/they all get so twisted up when The Editor comes to teach, even if The Editor has the coaching skills of an oyster.  Because they are already in that game. They are already keeping score.  People who have written a thousand stories that they have never submitted are not &#8220;real writers&#8221; by the standards of the game, no matter the quality of the prose.  That&#8217;s all I was trying to get at &#8212; that there is an accepted set of standards that we&#8217;ve all absorbed even if we don&#8217;t generally talk about them.</p>
<p>And then writers, being an insecure lot, start jostling to see who is most real, most important.  Blech.</p>
<p>And on it goes. </p>
<p>This is a tricky conversation for me in general (not just with you, but the whole thing). I feel clear and passionate about this discovery, this decision I&#8217;ve made.  It is absolutely right for me.  But I am also clear that being right <em>for me</em> does not make it right for everyone &#8212; maybe anyone &#8212; else.  I&#8217;m not trying to convert or persuade any other writer out there to embrace it.  My admiration and respect for other writers, including you, is not based on anything except my appreciation for your work and my respect for the sweat and courage it takes to do it.  </p>
<p>What ought to matter most?  Where is our success? There is no one answer.  It&#8217;s for each of us to decide.  There are as many paths as there are people.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Tiedemann</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6029</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Tiedemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:25:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-6029</guid>
		<description>----Youâre being a bit disingenuous, I think. You know as well as I do where the bar is. It is a combination of quantity of published output, rate of output, professional-level prose, and a certain level of recognition in the field (as in, not having to remind editors of who you are, having people look at your name badge at conventions and say oh wow, I read your book, getting solicitations from editors of anthologies, etc.).-----

I had to think about this a bit before responding.  One of the things I&#039;ve always valued about you (and Nicola) is your ability to see through b.s. and then convey what you do see clearly.  That you&#039;ve done that for me often (both of you) is priceless.

So, am I being a bit disingenuous?  Probably.  Seeking validation is something I&#039;ve been engaged in apparently all my life.  It&#039;s part of what drives me.  Which means sometimes I&#039;ve accepted other standards than my own.

There are two bars.  The most meaningful one is the effect your work has on ONE person.  Because we all receive and react inside our skulls, alone, and at the moment of encounter, that&#039;s all that matters.  On that count, none of has anything to feel unsuccessful about.  

The second bar comes with the enterprise, and that is that we&#039;re engaged in performance.  For that you need an audience.  And with each new member of the audience comes a bit more energy to keep working.  That bar, though, I think, moves.

But that bar is a game.  And it&#039;s a false standard.  It&#039;s what leads writers to write the same book over and over again, bands to record the same album over and over again, actors to play the same role over and over again, instead of trying something new and richer.  Because the artist then fears losing that audience (which is actually pretty unlikely) because the Other People making book on the artist&#039;s work keep telling the artist that.

It&#039;s a seductive game, though, because when it&#039;s hitting on all eight cylinders, so to speak, it feels so good.  For a while.

So, yeah, I was being a bit disingenuous (not entirely intentionally) because I know---as do you---what ought to matter most.  I&#039;d still ask that question of the critic to see if the critic understood that, too.

But thanks (once again) for backing me up and making me look at something a little closer.  I&#039;m more encouraged today than yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;-Youâre being a bit disingenuous, I think. You know as well as I do where the bar is. It is a combination of quantity of published output, rate of output, professional-level prose, and a certain level of recognition in the field (as in, not having to remind editors of who you are, having people look at your name badge at conventions and say oh wow, I read your book, getting solicitations from editors of anthologies, etc.).&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>I had to think about this a bit before responding.  One of the things I&#8217;ve always valued about you (and Nicola) is your ability to see through b.s. and then convey what you do see clearly.  That you&#8217;ve done that for me often (both of you) is priceless.</p>
<p>So, am I being a bit disingenuous?  Probably.  Seeking validation is something I&#8217;ve been engaged in apparently all my life.  It&#8217;s part of what drives me.  Which means sometimes I&#8217;ve accepted other standards than my own.</p>
<p>There are two bars.  The most meaningful one is the effect your work has on ONE person.  Because we all receive and react inside our skulls, alone, and at the moment of encounter, that&#8217;s all that matters.  On that count, none of has anything to feel unsuccessful about.  </p>
<p>The second bar comes with the enterprise, and that is that we&#8217;re engaged in performance.  For that you need an audience.  And with each new member of the audience comes a bit more energy to keep working.  That bar, though, I think, moves.</p>
<p>But that bar is a game.  And it&#8217;s a false standard.  It&#8217;s what leads writers to write the same book over and over again, bands to record the same album over and over again, actors to play the same role over and over again, instead of trying something new and richer.  Because the artist then fears losing that audience (which is actually pretty unlikely) because the Other People making book on the artist&#8217;s work keep telling the artist that.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a seductive game, though, because when it&#8217;s hitting on all eight cylinders, so to speak, it feels so good.  For a while.</p>
<p>So, yeah, I was being a bit disingenuous (not entirely intentionally) because I know&#8212;as do you&#8212;what ought to matter most.  I&#8217;d still ask that question of the critic to see if the critic understood that, too.</p>
<p>But thanks (once again) for backing me up and making me look at something a little closer.  I&#8217;m more encouraged today than yesterday.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-6016</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-6016</guid>
		<description>&quot;Cautious, careful people, always casting about to preserve their reputationsâ¦ can never effect a reform.&quot;
                                                                     - - Susan B. Anthony 

I ran across this quote today and I thought of you (and Nicola).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cautious, careful people, always casting about to preserve their reputationsâ¦ can never effect a reform.&#8221;<br />
                                                                     &#8211; - Susan B. Anthony </p>
<p>I ran across this quote today and I thought of you (and Nicola).</p>
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		<title>By: Kelley</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-5996</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Aug 2008 00:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-5996</guid>
		<description>Hey Karina, thanks for the link to Pat Holt.  I used to subscribe to her newsletter but somehow it fell off the list -- am very glad to reconnect with her writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Karina, thanks for the link to Pat Holt.  I used to subscribe to her newsletter but somehow it fell off the list &#8212; am very glad to reconnect with her writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Sanchez</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-5979</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara Sanchez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 16:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-5979</guid>
		<description>I would like to proudly point that I did not assign a gender pronoun to the critic. I&#039;m not sure that was on purpose though. Just like to brag!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to proudly point that I did not assign a gender pronoun to the critic. I&#8217;m not sure that was on purpose though. Just like to brag!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-5970</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 00:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-5970</guid>
		<description>This discussion puts me in mind of the career of Ted Chiang. His career is of similar length to yours, but his output in published words is significantly lower, However, two or three of his stories would make the list of my 20 favorite of all time. His &quot;Story of Your LIfe&quot; would be #1. I&#039;d love to see more of his work, but I can&#039;t argue with the quality of what does come out. He&#039;s a pinch hitter who only gets one at bat a season but hits a home run nine out of ten times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion puts me in mind of the career of Ted Chiang. His career is of similar length to yours, but his output in published words is significantly lower, However, two or three of his stories would make the list of my 20 favorite of all time. His &#8220;Story of Your LIfe&#8221; would be #1. I&#8217;d love to see more of his work, but I can&#8217;t argue with the quality of what does come out. He&#8217;s a pinch hitter who only gets one at bat a season but hits a home run nine out of ten times.</p>
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		<title>By: karina</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-5968</link>
		<dc:creator>karina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-5968</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t assume the critic was male. Nor that they were being mean when they decided not to review DS. I&#039;m guessing critics are under just as much (if not more) stress as writers are these days. You can go &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.holtuncensored.com/members/column398.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;read Pat Holt&lt;/a&gt; for confirmation. Who wants to take unnecessary risks? (I do! I do! But I get off on it, perhaps too much and to my own detriment.) Publishing and print media are on shaky grounds as it is. Oh, and think about the film Ratatouille. The Most Revered Critic lost all his credibility because he gave the rat-chef a rave review and people didn&#039;t agree. Ok, that&#039;s too extreme, but still.

It is indeed a game that&#039;s hard to win, especially now that the rules are being re-evaluated on almost every level. I agree with Dave when he says it&#039;s a matter of having no regrets about our individual process as artists and human beings, being okay with the river part of us that&#039;s in love with taking curves and detours to investigate what it means to be alive and on a journey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t assume the critic was male. Nor that they were being mean when they decided not to review DS. I&#8217;m guessing critics are under just as much (if not more) stress as writers are these days. You can go <a href="http://www.holtuncensored.com/members/column398.html" rel="nofollow">read Pat Holt</a> for confirmation. Who wants to take unnecessary risks? (I do! I do! But I get off on it, perhaps too much and to my own detriment.) Publishing and print media are on shaky grounds as it is. Oh, and think about the film Ratatouille. The Most Revered Critic lost all his credibility because he gave the rat-chef a rave review and people didn&#8217;t agree. Ok, that&#8217;s too extreme, but still.</p>
<p>It is indeed a game that&#8217;s hard to win, especially now that the rules are being re-evaluated on almost every level. I agree with Dave when he says it&#8217;s a matter of having no regrets about our individual process as artists and human beings, being okay with the river part of us that&#8217;s in love with taking curves and detours to investigate what it means to be alive and on a journey.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://kelleyeskridge.com/gone-from-the-game/comment-page-1/#comment-5964</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kelleyeskridge.com/?p=696#comment-5964</guid>
		<description>For me I think it&#039;s mostly pure laziness and un-pc-ness.   I&#039;m of an age when it was taught that it was proper grammatically to use the &#039;he&#039; pronoun when gender was unspecified.  It&#039;s a habit that I am aware of  and should pay more attention to correcting.  Still I must admit, I may have also assumed that someone, whom I immediately disliked as being rather pompous, was male. Lazy, sexist, and judgmental all at once.  Nice. (g)  I may have surpassed that critic in my carelessness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me I think it&#8217;s mostly pure laziness and un-pc-ness.   I&#8217;m of an age when it was taught that it was proper grammatically to use the &#8216;he&#8217; pronoun when gender was unspecified.  It&#8217;s a habit that I am aware of  and should pay more attention to correcting.  Still I must admit, I may have also assumed that someone, whom I immediately disliked as being rather pompous, was male. Lazy, sexist, and judgmental all at once.  Nice. (g)  I may have surpassed that critic in my carelessness.</p>
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